Hmmm... Why did I freak?

[mikey3000]

Ok, so here goes nothing.

Many of you know that I am a married bi guy with a boy friend too. No secrets from the wife. I believe that any relationship has to have trust. That includes the one with my wife and the one with my boyfriend.

The BF and I have been seeing eachother for almost two years now and have discussed eachother's pasts. I don't have much of one, and I thought he didn't either since that is what he told me, and plus he's been partnered to another guy for almost 28 years (though they don't, and never have lived together and for the past several years, not even in the same state).

Well over the past couple of weeks he has been letting details from his past slip that he never disclosed before, past women and past men. I am ok with that as of course I expect him to have a past, but last night he dropped something on me that was totally unexpected. He told me that he had a mmf threesome with folks he met on the net while his partner just sat and watched the three of them. And the kicker is that this happened, like fifteen years ago. And I flipped. I guess it was because it slipped his mind, or that he did it in front of his partner, oh, I don't know. It's just that for the past two years he has portrayed this persona that is now not matching with his undisclosed past. He has tried to instill in me trust and fidelity by asking me to not play around with others as he truly loves me and doesn't want to see me in danger, though it was ok for him to do so when he was my age. I was lead to believe that he and his partner were in a comitted, loving relationship, but now I see a different truth comming out. Granted the 3somme was many years ago, there have been other incidents that have happened in his not so distant past. And now I'm wondering if I'm just being played. I also found out that he is not telling his partner about my visits to him. Am I a fool? Why did I freak? Am I over-reacting? I have been nothing but honest with everyone involved, is it too much to expect the same?

[DuckiesDarling]

Hugs, Mikey.

I think in a way you answered your own question. You have been honest with everyone, he hasn't. Add in revelations that change the way you view him and you have an explosive combination. Were you being played? I don't know, I think not. But I do think you were being used. There is a difference.

[mikey3000]

What's the difference? What do you think I'm being used for? I'm using present tense cause I'm still seeing the guy. :(

[by~his~side]

Mikey,
He told you. You didn't find out by accident. To me that reads as he wanted you to know. Maybe he wasn't ready to tell you EVERYTHING until this point in your relationship. Your relationship with him is only two years old. I think it's important to focus on the fact that he did tell you on his own.

You're upset by what you now know and you aren't quite sure why. No one will know why but you. Take the time to sit and think it through. The answers are always there when we take the time to find them. You might not like where the thoughts are leading you but it's important.

Communication. Understanding. Compromise. Forgiveness.
We're all only human.

Good Luck sorting your way through. Would love to hear what you learn.

~D~

[DuckiesDarling]

What's the difference? What do you think I'm being used for? I'm using present tense cause I'm still seeing the guy. :(

Honestly, my gut reaction is you are being used for the affection and caring he is not getting from his long time friend. Playing would imply he meant to hurt you and doesn't give a damn. I think he gives a damn but is needing the affection and caring so much he's willing to use you to get it.

As By~his~side said, communication and understanding. I think you have already compromised but the forgiveness is totally up to you.

[mikey3000]

And it was the way he told me, to prove a point and how wrong I am. During the conversation last night, we were discussing a porn clip that he sent me of a MMF threesome. I said, "lucky guys, not too many women would do a MMF threesome like that (and in this video, clearly the woman was being left out)." Then he goes, "Oh yeah? wanna bet?", then told me about his threesome, like just to prove I was wrong. I said not too many women, not all women. But he had to prove me wrong with his story. And the fact that his gay partner sat in, just to watch, creeped me out too. This kinda prooves to me that their relationship isn't and never was what he claimed it to be, so why should I expect ours to be any different?

Plus the fact that I'm always flying down to meet him, and he has broken several arrangements to fly up and meet me. There is always some excuse. Now I know why, cause he doesn't want his partner to know I'm meeting him.

I just feel that he hasn't been honest with me now, and I don't know if I can get over that. Thanks guys for the input.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Plus the fact that I'm always flying down to meet him, and he has broken several arrangements to fly up and meet me. There is always some excuse. Now I know why, cause he doesn't want his partner to know I'm meeting him.

I just feel that he hasn't been honest with me now, and I don't know if I can get over that. Thanks guys for the input.

Ok, now this part would bother me. Especially if he hasnt told his partner about you. I wouldnt want to be someones 'Dirty little delightful secret" No one deserves that. And the excuses are not cool either.
The past is Just That. Its something that happened in the past and it has nothing to do with what is happening Now. And if he and his partner were in a play situation where the partner just watched, big deal. Maybe thats what he Wanted to do, was just sit back and enjoy the show.
You need to focus on the here and now, Babe. TALK to him. TELL him you have needs, but you need respect, too. And if his partner is in another state does it mean They get together and play too? I'm not understanding all of this, but I Do know that respect, communication, and honesty is a Must.
Its a two way street, and both ya'll need to be able to walk on that street.
Good luck Darlin and dont sweat the past of a person. Just live for Now. :} Today is right here in front of you, and tomorrow hasnt written itself yet.
Cat

[Long Duck Dong]

And it was the way he told me, to prove a point and how wrong I am. During the conversation last night, we were discussing a porn clip that he sent me of a MMF threesome. I said, "lucky guys, not too many women would do a MMF threesome like that (and in this video, clearly the woman was being left out)." Then he goes, "Oh yeah? wanna bet?", then told me about his threesome, like just to prove I was wrong. I said not too many women, not all women. But he had to prove me wrong with his story. And the fact that his gay partner sat in, just to watch, creeped me out too. This kinda prooves to me that their relationship isn't and never was what he claimed it to be, so why should I expect ours to be any different?

Plus the fact that I'm always flying down to meet him, and he has broken several arrangements to fly up and meet me. There is always some excuse. Now I know why, cause he doesn't want his partner to know I'm meeting him.

I just feel that he hasn't been honest with me now, and I don't know if I can get over that. Thanks guys for the input.

mikey, what does your gut tell you........ and how emotionally entangled are you..... cos i would hate to see things go south and tear you and ya marriage down .......

I know what I think about the situation and yeah.... it feels like you are getting the short end of the stick while you are giving it all, and that ya bf needs to decide what he is doing and what he wants cos you are 100% genuine about the relationship and what you are putting into it.....

[mikey3000]

Why does it creep you out that his gay husband watched him have a 3 way? He's gay so he's not going to participate at all.

Some people do get off on being a voyeur or only watching someone else they're partnered with have sex.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that now. See, I still am new at this bi stuff, but I do not lie to my wife. She knows all. Though she is not ready to participate, she loves to hear all about it.

I think the reason I didn't like his partner sitting there watching is because I do know his partner well. The three of us have done threesomes together. His partner is very shy and self conscious, mostly because he is older. He was not going to participate in our first threesome cause he didn't want to ruin it. I talked with him and won him over and he joined in. I didn't wat him to be left out. It was one of the most amazing nights of out lives. He does know about me and how his partner feels about me, but he doesn't know that I fly down to spend time with his partner. His partner doesn't want him to know that part.

What I do know is that feelings get hurt (no matter how much they deny it) when, for what ever reason, a partner gets left out. I couldn't be just a spectator if my wife was doing it with someone else, nor could she. Either we all play together or be a true voyeur and peek through the window. That's just how I and my wife feel. That's just us.

I guess the reason I got so upset is because at the beginning of the relationship, he presented him and his partner in a certain light, saying that I was the first time they ever done something like a threesome. He declared that he only had a handful of experiences. That's why I agreed to enter the relationship. Well, now he's letting things slip to show that he lies. Now it's more like a boat load and expects me to just "deal with it". And I need to know the truth. If he's lying to me about stuff like this, how do I know that not lying about other stuff, maybe he's fucking other men in his city too. I have to consider STDs cause I don't want to infect my wife. At the start of the relationship, I clearly stated that I didn't want someone who slept around and that's what I thought I got. He presented himself in such a wholesome manner. Now I'm learning that that may not the case. And the point that he has asked me to not play with anyone else, which I have obeyed, yet he played plenty when he was my age, almost seems hypocritical, no?

Yes, I understand he has a past, we all do. But my past was before I met my wife, 24 years ago. He's been with his partner for 27 years and has had trists (family, friends and anonymous strangers) from the first year of their relationship, all the way to just a couple of years before he met me. Should I really believe that he stopped because he met me? He loves me very much, I believe that, and I love him too.

I guess I just have to get over it. If I plan on staying bisexual, then this is the shit I have to put up with.

Girls, do men always lie? How do you put up with them? :rolleyes:

[void()]

"He has tried to instill in me trust and fidelity by asking me to not play around with others as he truly loves me and doesn't want to see me in danger, though it was ok for him to do so when he was my age. I was lead to believe that he and his partner were in a comitted, loving relationship, but now I see a different truth comming out."

Suppose though, he and partner did and do have a loving relationship. Some people are capable of such as described. I don't watch the wife enjoying other men. That's her time. She's the same about watching me with men. We just do not desire that aspect. Other folks may. More power to them. Doesn't mean they do not love one another. It might be the opposite actually, they love one another so much they enjoy watching.

Appears he is being honest with you. Maybe your perceptions need put into a different frame. He did not need to tell you of his past at all. That he is comfortable enough to, may indicate a deepening of intimacy, trust, love. He wants you to feel safe about him.

"Plus the fact that I'm always flying down to meet him, and he has broken several arrangements to fly up and meet me. There is always some excuse. Now I know why, cause he doesn't want his partner to know I'm meeting him."

You present one possibility. How many possibilities exist in our cosmos alone? I am not defending him. But he may have genuine and valid reasons for him not coming to you, and not merely only the one you present.

I concur with Mama, though, about being a 'secret other'. To me that is cheating. I do not cheat on my wife, nor she me. And we don't help others cheat to our knowledge. That's our ground rules. She met a nice guy. There were a few hints in his mannerism. He was/is married and used my wife to cheat, or tried to. She dropped him real quick despite feeling crappy for doing it.

Again, take a little time and maybe look at things from different places and in different ways. You can not always be sure. If your instinct tells you something, listen. That normally is the best guide.

[mikey3000]

He did not need to tell you of his past at all.
I disagree with this one point. When I asked about his past, his answer was the reason I agreed to enter the relationship. If it was a lie, that makes all the difference in the world. I do agree though that our deepening intimacy has likely made it easier for him to now tell the truth. Doesn't excuse the initial lie though.

But I really do appreciate all the input. It is helping me to make a decision if I should further persue the relationship. It'll be very hard to terminate it, me my wife and my kids would all be very upset if he was no longer in our lives.

[Hephaestion]

.............................I think the reason I didn't like his partner sitting there watching is because I do know his partner well. The three of us have done threesomes together. His partner is very shy and self conscious, mostly because he is older. He was not going to participate in our first threesome cause he didn't want to ruin it. I talked with him and won him over and he joined in. I didn't wat him to be left out. It was one of the most amazing nights of out lives. He does know about me and how his partner feels about me, but he doesn't know that I fly down to spend time with his partner. His partner doesn't want him to know that part......................................

So you are seeing your boyfriend and his partner separately and you are keeping it secret.

Hasn't this thread been about secrets and the upsets they have caused?

[BiJoe696]

Just IMHO here, but what happened in the past should mostly stay in the past. If early on in the relationship with this guy you asked about his past and he said he had a few guys, would you have expected him to say well 100's or 1000's it that is the number? If I am asked a number I answer honestly I lost count, long ago, that is all. If pressed for details I would give them, but it is rare that I have been.

My wife knows I am Bi and that I have a past. Sometimes will ask me if I had done a type of sex act and I will answer honestly that I have done it and which is usually the case. But its really old news. Why should either of us dwell on it. One reason my SO partners (there has only been 3 real SO's) enjoyed me was because of my openness with them about my past when they asked, but none of them really wanted all the down and dirty details. They know I am kind of a "Try" sexual in my life that I figure we get one shot , might as well try it and see if you like it. If you do enjoy it while it last, if not move on, now you know. Perhaps this is a case where "Don't ask, don't tell" should apply if you do not want to know.

:bipride: :bibounce: Just my :2cents: worth

[tenni]

Hey Mikey
Interesting how things may change so quickly. From what I glean, there are two issues and it seems that the most important is about secrecy and disclosure. The most pressing seems to be that your lover is not completely disclosing the number of visits that you make to him. As others have said, ask for clarification and don't make a rash decision. One hundred percent honesty may be idealistic. Find out his reasons for not telling his partner in another city.

As to the mmf threesome in his past being brought up as a reference, it may have been an oversight. Which of these two disturbing matters is more important to you? Deal with that one first. You seem to have freaked because information was disclosed to you that has shaken you and your comfort with the honesty in the relationship.

[AidanS57]

Seems like a lot of various stuff going on, Mikey. I remember reading somewhere where you were also dealing with a couple cancer patients and a dementia patient in the same home as well as all of this.

It might be time to just back away from this guy. Let him figure out what he actually wants because right now it doesn't seem as if it's a relationship with you. It's almost like he's scared and tossing things out there to see how you react. As for men lying? We all lie, Mikey. We all lie. Whether it's the "nope" to the "Does this make my ass look fat" or to the "of course" when asked if you already took the trash out as your wife is on her way home. We even lie to our same sex partners the same we do to our opposite sex partners with the "call you later line".

I don't apologize for being a male, there are just certain things that are ingrained as a survival instinct and they surface in any contact with another human being. Sex means nothing there.

I wish you the best as you try to sort this out.

Aidan

[void()]

I disagree with this one point. When I asked about his past, his answer was the reason I agreed to enter the relationship. If it was a lie, that makes all the difference in the world. I do agree though that our deepening intimacy has likely made it easier for him to now tell the truth. Doesn't excuse the initial lie though.

But I really do appreciate all the input. It is helping me to make a decision if I should further persue the relationship. It'll be very hard to terminate it, me my wife and my kids would all be very upset if he was no longer in our lives.

Well you can disagree. That's fine. Yes, we can agree to disagree. I don't think any less or more of you for it. People do disagree at times. Sky and sea are blue, world goes round as do me and you.

"Quick run for hills, the world is ending! There was a disagreement!"

Void shrugs. "It happens. So what?"

[void()]

So you are seeing your boyfriend and his partner separately and you are keeping it secret.

Hasn't this thread been about secrets and the upsets they have caused?

No, he's seeing that hot Geordie o'r South Sheilds what works in pub at Newcastle. An' I think the thread has been on about some type of nuclear accident in Russia.

[Hephaestion]

No, he's seeing that hot Geordie o'r South Sheilds what works in pub at Newcastle. An' I think the thread has been on about some type of nuclear accident in Russia.

I've heard of Newcastle. They say it is 'Upon Tyne' . However, the general opinion is that the land is mythical, of folklore, much like the 'nuclear accident in Russia'. The Russians put that one about as a marketing strategy for 'Chicken Chernobyl' as a competitor to global 'Chicken Kiev'.

The entire matter is now in perspective

Thanks for that Void

[mikey3000]

So you are seeing your boyfriend and his partner separately and you are keeping it secret.

Hasn't this thread been about secrets and the upsets they have caused?
Sorry, I know it's a tad confusing. No, I'm not seeing each separately and secretly. The three of us started off as a triad, me, my BF (R) and his partner (J). Together we had a number of threesomes and lots of fun out of bed too. Just a group of good friends. But as things progressed, J has started to pull away, leaving just me and R. Now R wants to hide the growing relationship between he and I from J. And before you start throwing rocks at me, remember, my wife knows all about us, the threesomes we had, and now the relationship with me and R. She has met both many times and has actually grown very fond of R too.

But I think I'll just stick it out and see where it goes. The bottom line is that I know R cares for me and my family very much, and would never do anything to intentionally hurt any of us. And I guess that's what really counts. I'm far from perfect, so I shouldn't expect it either.

[Hephaestion]

You are correct. It is confusing to the onlooker.

Criticise? I once had a number of concurrent complicated relationships and found it very tiring even though they all knew about each other. It was so easy to say or do something that could be misinterpreted.

Your wife seems an absolute gem.
Good Luck Mikey

[12voltman59]

Mikey---I personally do think you freaked out over nothing----my god man---it sounded like a once or at most a few time deal and wasn't much of a thing for him--and it happened over a decade ago.

There is no rule that says that we have to disclose all the things in our past immediately---I know I am sure as hell not going to talk about some relationship or sexual experience with a partner unless I happen to think of it---it may have been something he more or less forgot about---that is normal and natural.

Part of the fun of knowing a person is even no matter how much you know them---and for how long----at some point they disclose something from their past that you had never heard about before.

To his disclosure about this threeway, 15 years back--I say, "No big fracking deal!" and don't think it means much he never disclosed it before this.

[mikey3000]

I know. You're absolutely right. It was years ago. I really don'y know why I freaked. That was my point of this thread. I don't know why I did.

But things are going to be a little different. All his blather of monogamy mean shit now. If I have the oppourtunity, and the dude is to my liking, you're damn well right I'll go for it. I've passed up on many chances for play recently, but no more. If he can, so can I. I don't need his permission (but I will tell my wife :bigrin:)

[dafydd]

Mikey I think you're overacting. why do you think he didn't tell you? Because he knew you'd react like this! He knows you too well. that kind of accurate assessment is always a sign that connections have been made between 2 people that shouldn't be overlooked. i have only a curious interest in what anyone did b4 they met me, let alone 15 years ago.
relax man.

d

[dafydd]

also i don't get it...you're upset because he was honest with you about a consensual mmf 3some he had, that his partner of the time agreed to watch? sounds kind of hot to me:bigrin:

[mikey3000]

But that's my point. It wasn't only 15 years ago, it was two years ago, three years ago, 5-10-15 and so on. All the while he told me him and his partner were very monogamous until I came along. Obviously not true. There were too many for him to remember, yet he wants me to remain true to him. That's what I don't get. How can I be sure he's not hooking up on the sly now? Would he really stop his past behaviour after meeting me, or should I even care about that?

But you are right, we have developed a very deep connection over our time together. That I am sure of. I just want him to hold up his end of the bargain and put as much into the relationship as I am, and be honest, or is that too much to expect too?

[dafydd]

do u love him fella?

[mikey3000]

Yup, I do.

[dafydd]

then u know what to do ;)

[12voltman59]

I say Mikey--if you love him and he loves you and things go well--and you are together for the next 50 years----expect that over that time---you will continually learn new things about him and he about you----just enjoy it--hell---I keep learning new things about myself that surprises and sometimes scares the bijibbers out of me!!

Just enjoy the time together the finding out the new things--good luck with him and all!